Grant Cathro - 21st Anniversary Interview

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To celebrate the twenty first anniversary of T-Bag first being broadcast in the UK, I've asked Grant Cathro some in-depth questions about the show. He has kindly replied to the questions, his replies brought a big smile (and the odd giggle) to my face and I'm sure they will for all you T-Bag fans. Many thanks to Grant for his interview and all his input into the website. His help and input is greatly appreciated, I can't say thankyou enough to him for all his contributions and words of encouragement.

Anyway I'm sure you are all eager to read on (or you've probably read the interview first and just come back to this introduction!)

The interview is below, in his own words...

Was the complete removal of the educational elements of the show in T. Bag Strikes Again your idea or an executive decision?

The idea that T. Bag was ever in any way educational makes me laugh. Lee and I went along with the Executive Producer’s remit at the start, but our real aim was to make a weird and funny show. The use of letters and numbers in the end proved incidental – a hook to get the action going. By the end of series one we were having such fun with T. Bag as pure comedy-drama that any vague educational element just vanished quietly off the scene.

What was the reason for Diana Barrand replacing Jennie Stallwood in Turn on to T. Bag? Similarly, why did Diana Barrand and Natalie Wood not return for second series’? Did they choose not to return or were they no longer required?

I don’t think there’s any real mystery to it. All kinds of reasons come together to force a change of cast. Sometimes you just feel the show needs an injection of something new. It was always nice having a fresh face or two around the place for T. Bag to hate.

Had you started writing T. Bag and the Pearls of Wisdom before Elizabeth Estensen left the series? Had she remained, would that particular series have been any different? Was Elizabeth Estensen’s appearance in T. Bag’s Christmas Carol a conciliatory gesture on the actress’s part or was this filmed immediately after T. Bag and the Revenge of the T. Set?

If I remember right, we knew from the end of series five that Elizabeth Estensen would be leaving the show and we wrote the Pearls of Wisdom fully expecting a major change. If Liz had remained, I expect the show would have more resembled the previous 50-odd episodes, in tone at least.

No, I don’t think we got into conciliatory gestures. Liz leaving the show to do other things was amicable all round. T. Bag’s Christmas Carol would have been filmed either just before or just after Revenge of the T. Set.

Georgina Hale’s portrayal of Tabatha Bag seems more rounded and confident post-T. Bag and the Pearls of Wisdom: was this a result of your better knowledge of her abilities, the actress’s better understanding of the role, the change in director from Leon Thau to Glyn Edwards, or a combination of all three?

More the first two, I’d say, but undoubtedly a combination. We wrote the character of Tabatha without knowing who would play the role. Not wanting to upset the dynamic of the show too drastically, we kept the characterisation as close as possible to Tallulah, perhaps adding a slightly harder edge, since the story has her bulldozing her way uninvited into T. Bag World.

Georgina was certainly thrown in at the deep end. I imagine she was very keen to make her own mark in the show, and not merely attempt a copy of what Liz was doing – and yet, the part as written was almost pure Tallulah. So I should think it was quite a daunting prospect. As it happened, we shot the Western episode first – in which Georgina gives a wonderfully pungent Mae West type performance (“Whaaat? You meeeaan? You aiiin’t never heard of the kiiiiid???”) – and I do believe that she may have taken her cue for the entire role from this opening shot. Once Lee and I had seen Georgina in action, we naturally wrote all the subsequent series especially to suit her unique style – so maybe that’s why you get the impression of it bedding in.

It’s also true that Glyn’s directing style was very different from Leon’s – Glyn tended to let everyone get on and do their own thing – so maybe that helped to set Georgina free and allow her to consolidate the part.

Did you find it easier working with Glyn Edwards than with Leon Thau?

Well, you know, the pressure was really on making T. Bag. All very well for Lee and me to ask for extravagant and complicated things in our scripts, but the buck stops at the director’s door – and Leon was always quick to ensure that he wasn’t going to come a cropper on the studio day, even if that meant upsetting Lee and me by rewriting our endings without telling us – gurrrrr.

Getting the show up on its feet in the first place was certainly pretty fraught sometimes, because in creating a brand new series format everybody involved comes at it with their own very subjective ideas of how it should go. But that’s the process. It’s always a collaborative effort. You expect a bit of conflict.

It certainly got easier once the pattern of the show had been established. After that, it was just a matter of trying to let the show develop. We gained in confidence I think especially around series three, and were winning more of the arguments by then.

By the time Glyn took over, we were much more secure and knowledgeable about how to write a script that could be filmed in one day. Glyn really trusted us, loved the scripts, and pretty much shot what we wrote.

Neville Green was my favourite director, despite the fact that he only did that one final series. Look at the visual flourishes everywhere – the filmic use of sound and the hilariously cheesy special effects. This is how Lee and I had always imagined T.Bag from the beginning – and yet impressively it was still all shot at the hair-raising rate of just one day per episode.

Do you think it was better or worse co-writing all the episodes (in the first series) than writing episodes individually (like in the latter series) and why?

We liked to do both – it kept things fresh. Until series 6 or 7 we had written every single dot and comma together, and we fancied a change – although we did continue to work out all the storylines together, which is by far the hardest bit. After that, we went off and wrote many of the scripts (dialogue and action) separately. It was good for the show, I think, because of course human nature kicks in – and when Lee and I went off to write our individual episodes there was that mild sense of friendly competitiveness: who could write the sharpest, funniest script? I think it came out about even, in the end!

Why did you choose to remove the curiosity shop from the series in T. Bag and the Sunstones of Montezuma? Similarly, why the change of theme tune?

They were just details, really. We felt the curiosity shop opener had had its day, and loved the idea of leaping straight into the action.

We had nothing to do with the change of theme tune, though – that was the director’s choice. It was all just about trying to keep it moving along.

Why did you choose to change the plot of the series so radically in Take off with T. Bag?

It looks like a radical change, but actually it’s not. It’s still basically a treasure hunt around the various story genres. I suppose you could argue that abandoning the girl at the centre of the action was a big departure, and that’s true. When we were asked to write the T. Bag book, we decided to make it a T. Bag and T. Shirt story because otherwise the action would be leaping from the girl to T. Bag and back again – great for television, but an uncomfortable read. So we’d already imagined how a T. Bag series without a girl would go, and decided to borrow the bare bones of the book plot for Series Nine; then we added the Tow Ling character to recreate that “three-characters-on-a-quest” type dynamic which had served us so well in the past.

Who were the party guests (and the waiter) at Tabatha Bag’s surprise party at the end of Take Off With T. Bag? Were these extras or members of the crew?

The party payoff wasn’t exactly what we’d hoped for! The original idea was that everybody who had appeared in the previous nine episodes would all leap out unexpectedly at the end and yell “surprise” – revealing to T. Bag and the audience that everybody was in on the wild goose chase joke all along. Yet, even as we conceived the idea, Lee and I were thinking: “how likely is it that we’ll be able to get all of those actors back to film just one scene on the same day?” The answer was “Forget it.”

But then, at an early production meeting, somebody suggested the idea of shooting special party-scene “cutaways” at the end of each studio day. Once edited together, you’d get the impression that they were all actually there (Oh, look, there’s Sultan Bag over there, and oh, look, there’s Bin Bag, and there’s Hedda Hoofer Bag – they’ve all turned up!). Well, that was the theory anyway.

In the event, the cutaways seemed mildly absurd – and to bulk out the rest of the party, a handful of oddly nondescript walk-ons were engaged, all looking like they’d just wandered in from the Thames Television bar. One of them was the guy who played the part of Doggy Bag’s right paw. Another was the floor manager, Bobby.

Neville Green the director asked Lee and me if we’d like to join the fray, but we declined. Now I wish we’d done an Alfred Hitchcock and said yes, as a souvenir of our 94th and final episode (Oh, look, there’s Wind Bag and Colostomy Bag!)

Was there another Christmas special planned before the show ended to be shown for Christmas 1992?

No – only the much talked about 10th series, which alas never was.

Do you have a favourite episode/series of T. Bag?

Mostly I’ve got favourite scenes. Just occasionally all the various elements would come together like magic and you’d get these little 2-or-3-minute gems. There’s usually at least one in every episode, and sometimes a whole hatful. They’re scattered at random all over the 94 episodes, and you’re never quite sure when one will pop up. I always love the ones where T-Shirt is throwing a domestic strop and winding T-Bag up something awful. They remind me of my childhood – ask my mum. Or when Liz or Georgina lapse into one of those all-stops-out characterisations in order to “blend in” – and come across like some kind of raving lunatic. Liz and Georgina never failed us when we gave them this fruity stuff to do.

I think my favourite Liz Estensen series was “Turn Onto T-Bag” although “Revenge of the T-Set” was just as strong (am I the only person who thinks the High T-Lady is the funniest, campest old bird in the history of kids’ television? – “The children!”)

Of the Georgina crop I really like “The Sunstones of Montezuma”. I think Lee and I really hit our stride with this series – and the cast are all just terrific. “Take Off with T-Bag” has one of two of my personal favourites in it, too.

But it’s the Christmas special “T. Bag’s Christmas Ding-Dong” co-starring Glenda Jackson which I really enjoy taking a nostalgic squint at from time to time. To me, it’s the perfect T-Bag episode – wonderfully acted, pacily shot by Glyn Edwards, full of hilarious scenes, edgy, raucous, sentimental – and totally barking mad.

Where you surprised at the high viewing figures for the series? Do you know what the ratings for the series overall were? Which was the most successful series (in terms of viewing figures) and which was the least successful?

I’m afraid haven’t kept those figures (maybe Lee has?) but I do remember that T-Bag would regularly feature in the Top 100 most-watched TV programmes, getting bigger audiences than hot-at-the-time American shows like “Cheers”. I seem to remember figures of 5 million viewers – incredible, really, for a humble little kids’ show tucked away at 4.20 in the afternoon – and, yes, we were very surprised and very, very delighted.

If T-Bag was commercially released on DVD would you be willing to get involved with any extras (e.g. interviews, running commentaries etc)?

There are certainly 1001 backstage stories to tell!!

With the successfully revived Doctor Who on the BBC, what are your thoughts on bringing T. Bag back for the twenty-first century generation?

Lee and I are talking about the possibility right now, as it happens. We’d both really like to. As always, it’s a matter of luck and timing. There are copyright issues too, but I dare say if the will is there these could be resolved. In the end, it’s all down to what the broadcasters want.

Watch this space.

Have you any other comments or further thoughts about T-Bag you would like to share with everybody who grew up watching T-Bag?

Just to say a sincere THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. It fills my heart to know that 21 years later, it’s still being talked about, remembered and enjoyed.

Now let’s see if we can persuade these idiots to release it on DVD.

Grant Cathro